Changing Rear Discs And Pads Tomorrow

[Jayton]

Got the discs and pads, will get a little copper slip (might still have a big tub in the GTD).

 

 

So from what I've read there are 2 x 14mm bolts holding the calliper to the carrier/hub.

Tie it up out the way until the discs are replaced, not bending the brake hose too much.

When replacing the discs clean up the hub surface and smear a bit of copper slip on so removing the discs later on in life is easier.

Pop the old pads out the calliper, clean the calliper up, place new pads in position. Use Laser tool to wind the piston back in.

Bolt Calliper back up. replace wheel, lower car, pump brake pedal 10 times?

Simple as that?

 

 

Now, what I want to know is it necessary to clamp the brake hose and undo the bleed valve?

The new pads I got (set of 4 boxed Pagid pads and 2 Pagid discs from ECP) only 1 has a sensor plug on it is this correct and I won't find that I'm missing a pad with a plug on it?

 

Any suggestions on how to make it less stressful? (bar sending it to a mechanic).

 

TIA

 

Jay

[Mirez]

Only one side is monitored so you should only have one sensor wire.

 

Undoing the nipples is very important, if you don't undo then when widing the piston back in you'll be forcing fluid the wrong way through the ABS pump. There is the potential to flip the seals in the unit then which will trash it. Its not tricky but make sure you get the process right else you'll also draw air into the system which is a git to get back out! I would use an assistant (the missus lol) to control the nipple, only open it when you have just started retracting the piston and close it just before you stop so fluid is always being forced out. It would be wise to change the brake fluid at the same time if its not been done in the past 2 years.

 

That was a minefield of smut! :)

[Jayton]

Only one side is monitored so you should only have one sensor wire.

 

Thanks for confirming that for me.

 

I'll try rope father in law into helping me bleed the brakes, the missus is next to useless at 37 weeks preg lol she can barely walk.

[RADIOTWO]

Only one side is monitored so you should only have one sensor wire.

 

Thanks for confirming that for me.

 

I'll try rope father in law into helping me bleed the brakes, the missus is next to useless at 37 weeks preg lol she can barely walk.

 

I hope I catch you in time !

 

PLEASE DON'T UNDO THE BLEED NIPPLE I will cause you more hassle

 

It is a old wifes tale that it causes problem in the ABS pump, if you think about it under normal operation of the way the brakes work,

you press the pedal and the fluid goes one way(to the brake cylinder) then when you release it goes back, so in fact goes both ways.

 

I have never undone any nipples when doing brake work, unless I am changing the fluid.

 

Radiotwo

[gizmo.john]

i have never undone a bleed nipple when putting new pads on. Just remove filler cap to let fluid return more easy

[Bigjeeze]

PLEASE DON'T UNDO THE BLEED NIPPLE I will cause you more hassle

 

It is a old wifes tale that it causes problem in the ABS pump, if you think about it under normal operation of the way the brakes work,

you press the pedal and the fluid goes one way(to the brake cylinder) then when you release it goes back, so in fact goes both ways.

 

I have never undone any nipples when doing brake work, unless I am changing the fluid.

 

Radiotwo

 

 

Whilst in theory I agree, the TIS says to clamp off the hose and undo the bleed nipple.

[mk2vr6]

I hope I catch you in time !

 

PLEASE DON'T UNDO THE BLEED NIPPLE I will cause you more hassle

 

It is a old wifes tale that it causes problem in the ABS pump, if you think about it under normal operation of the way the brakes work,

you press the pedal and the fluid goes one way(to the brake cylinder) then when you release it goes back, so in fact goes both ways.

 

I have never undone any nipples when doing brake work, unless I am changing the fluid.

 

Radiotwo

 

please explain how the fluid goes both ways through the abs block? in what is in it simplist form a single piped system, as there is no return feed back from the calipers to the abs block, yes the fluid does move in a slight to and fro motion in the pipes when you stomp on the pedal, BUT! the fluid and the crap in the system is never pulled backed into the abs valve block or even gets close unless you use your method

also if as you keep saying that doing it your way will cause no problem please explain to all of us why the fluid in the reservoir is still the nice clean stuff and the crap you drain from the caliper end is dirty and contaminated with debri surely as we understand it from you it should all be the same quality!

Edited March 14, 2010 by mk2vr6

[RADIOTWO]

Whilst in theory I agree, the TIS says to clamp off the hose and undo the bleed nipple.

 

Hi bigjeeze

 

I am not being sarcastic but do you always believe every thing you read ?

 

As John says remove the cap, but it "should" not overflow because the fluid drop is only where the pad wear has taken it up.

 

And I am not a great lover of using clamps, never any proof, but sure it does not do the rubber any good, especially if they are

a little old and getting brittle.

 

Admitting if you pushed the pistons back very quickly then poss some harm could come of it, but you are not doing that just slowly

with the wind back tool or alike.

 

But the amount of stories I have heard " I replace my disc pads and now the pedal is soft" and when asked how did you change them

am told "I released the bleed nipple" it says it all.

 

Radiotwo

[Jayton]

Well I didn't get round to doing them today :)

 

 

I'll get it done next weekend, I'll bleed the rears while I'm at it and bleed the fronts when I do the pads and discs in a few months.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all the replies too.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Jayton

[gregers]

so after all of this surely there is a correct way of doing the pads/disks?

 

who is right/wrong?

[Jayton]

I would love to know that Greggers, every doc I've read on these say to clamp the brake hose and loosen the bleed nipple :)

 

I think I'll renew the fluid as the car does not have any service history from the previous owner.

I just need a weekend where I have nothing else to do, I might book myself for next Saturday so I defo have 1 full day to attempt this (brake changing virgin).

 

 

Would anyone recommend an easibleed kit over a jar, hose and assistant?

[George106]

so after all of this surely there is a correct way of doing the pads/disks?

 

who is right/wrong?

 

There would be always two groups of people, one would bled and another one just remove brake fluid reservoir cap and press pistons slowly inwards. I know some people working in the garage for 25+ years and they never bled system when changing disks/pads.

 

I have changed front disks/pads today without bleeding and everything is fine.

 

George

[RADIOTWO]

so after all of this surely there is a correct way of doing the pads/disks?

 

who is right/wrong?

 

Here you go Greg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkbcAdw0Es...feature=related

 

And no mention of undoing bleed nipple.

 

I have done a bit of research and that is a typical way of doing it, but no one mentions undoing for just pad change

 

 

Radiotwo

[chrispb123456]

so after all of this surely there is a correct way of doing the pads/disks?

 

who is right/wrong?

 

There would be always two groups of people, one would bled and another one just remove brake fluid reservoir cap and press pistons slowly inwards. I know some people working in the garage for 25+ years and they never bled system when changing disks/pads.

 

I have changed front disks/pads today without bleeding and everything is fine.

 

George

Hi All Just checked the TIS manual regarding changing brake pads.

There is no mention of undoing bleed screw when retracting caliper pistons it just says brake fluid will be displaced into the reservoir, using the special tool to retract the piston although I have improvised using a pair of pipe grips and a G clamp on the rears coz the rear pistons need to be turned and pushed at the same time its a bit fiddly but can be done the fronts are easy just a G clamp to push piston back, dont forget to take the cap off the reservoir first.

Have done two sets on mine in five years and never had a problem.

Also TIS uses the jar and tube method for bleeding

[Mirez]

In all fairness you can do it either way but in my opinion just undoing the cap is the lazy option. Very simply you WILL force old brake fluid back into the ABS chamber doing it without using the bleed nippples and that certainly isn't a wifes tale - it CAN cause some very expensive problems. Don't forget that water enters the system over the years (albeit in tiny quantities) but since thats heavier then the brake fluid it'll always end up down at the back of the pistons. Depending on how old the fluid is it'll likely have small particals of metal/rust as a result and if you pass that back into the ABS block then it could easily damage the seals. There is also the possibility of flipping the seals if you retract them too fast.

 

As with everything its a question of dilligance, time and prior servicing. When I changed the fluid on my last Mk2 I don't think it had ever been done - there were a number of tiny metal particals in there and I wouldn't have wanted them anywhere near the ABS cylinder. Any of those 25+ year mechanics could have just pumped that back into the abs cylinder and I would have driven off happy that the job was done. It could take days, months or years but if my ABS system then failed could you prove liability? Probably not so why would they care? Saving time and getting the highest number of cars in/out are most garages concerns.

 

This is not a slur on anyone who's already posted in this thread, but it makes me laugh that a lot of people take on DIY tasks and then cut as many corners as possible - if your saving the massive labour bill from a garage then spend the extra on getting quality parts, replacing semi-worn stuff and take the time to do it perfectly. For me, it's a much better feeling to complete the job and know it's been done BETTER then 99% of garages would do it rather then think it's been done the SAME as 99% of garages :)

[seatkid]

With previous cars I never bothered undoing the nipples, but then again they didnt have ABS.

 

The problems I experienced were

 

1. overflowing fluid from the reservoir due to topping up the fluid at some stage :)

 

2. On the passat the brake pedal developed a funny characteristic. Under moderate pressure, it would sort of click, and move slightly but abruptly down at the same time - something I assumed was a partly inverted seal or damaged/contaminated master cylinder.

 

IIRC It does say on my TIS to clamp the pipes and undo the nipples, however...My approach (to back brakes) is...

 

Don't clamp the pipes - it can only damage them

Connect a bleed kit (a jar with a pipe) to the nipple and undo the nipple and pump the pedal gently 4 or 5 times to pump the carp out and get enough in the jar to ensure air cant get back in.

 

Nip up nipples lightly to seal while removing caliper/pads (the dirty fluid tends to be drawn in while handling the caliper)

 

Undo nipples while winding back the pistons, nip up nipples again.

 

Refit pads/caliper and pump the pedal lightly to push pads to discs.

 

Undo nipples and pump pedal 4-5 times to flush last bit of carp out.

 

Nip up properly and do other side. Keep an eye on fluid level as you need to top up with fresh fluid.

 

The same would apply to the fronts (which I havent done yet - originals only on 105,000 miles!), but should be a bit simpler.

 

Helps keep clean, fresh fluid in the system.

 

I would be worried about pushing the crud (of which there is a surprising lot) back up the system, potentially contaminating the master cylinder (which supplies fluid to the clutch) and the ABS unit (which would be a disaster).

[Jayton]

You've convinced me to do the job properly now :D

 

I'll 'book' myself for the Saturday and take my time.

I might even flush the front fluid, even if I'm not changing the discs/pads yet, might as well get clean fluid all round while I'm at it :)

[cyborg]

hi as luck would have i have just replaced drivers side rear pads n disc on my 97 gal i didnt bother to open bleed nipple was going to do other side but the locking bolt has rounded and needs and impact driver . Anyways first 25 miles to work fine and were extremly firm but on way from work being tired i coasted a bit to close to car in front and slammed my anchors on the brakes went like jelly after pressing again i was lucky and came to a safe stop.

 

yesterday i took a very therapeutic bus ride to work grinning inanely when it stopped the people on the bus must have thought i was a special daytripper as i found myself humming the wheels on bus go round and round. erm think i gave myself a bit of a scare doh. :D

 

 

so on inspection the seals went i can only guess the extra pressure from not openning the bleed nipple. My Dad says that the servo does opposite wheels in an emergancy so i was lucky to have only done one .i have ordered and got brake http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=250475228773 the brake hand beake spring i can only just press not like the one on galaxy which is a bit to easy i will fit it sat but need to work out how to slack off hand brake would be grateful if anyones got idoits guide.

judging by the state of disc i took of i think i was asking too much of a 13 year old car in retrospect maybe not opening the bleeds is a newer car thing :)

[airbox]

I need to do mine as the warning light has just come on. I have looked on ebay for a wind back tool and there seems to be right handed and left handed ones. Which do I need for a 06 mk2 galaxy 1.9 TDI? I quite like the look of this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-ABS-BRAKE-PISTON-WIND-BACK-TOOL-22349-HANDBRAKE-SERVICE-MOST-FORD-ROVER-/150782623036?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item231b583d3c

Or this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-Handed-BRAKE-BREAK-CALIPER-PISTON-REWIND-TOOL-VW-AUDI-GOLF-SEAT-FORD-/300705137215?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item46036c423f

[airbox]

need to do mine on a 06 mk2 galaxy 1.9TDI. I have looked on ebay and there seems to be right and left handed wind back tools. Which do I need please?

I quite like the look of this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-Handed-BRAKE-BREAK-CALIPER-PISTON-REWIND-TOOL-VW-AUDI-GOLF-SEAT-FORD-/300705137215?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item46036c423f

or this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-ABS-BRAKE-PISTON-WIND-BACK-TOOL-22349-HANDBRAKE-SERVICE-MOST-FORD-ROVER-/150782623036?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item231b583d3c

I don't want the expense of this if I don't need it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Rewind-Wind-Back-Tool-Piston-Kit-19pc-for-vw-audi-ford-bmw-citreon-/190648116519?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2c63836527

 

Also what size bit do I need that fits into the piston and turns it?